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SearchChat Podcast: How Facebook Got Sent to App Jail

Facebook is having a terrible week. After experiencing a barrage of trouble over the last few months, they’ve finally crossed a line Apple won’t tolerate. They made available an app that gave themselves a scary amount of access to your device. It’s opt-in, but Facebook seems aware that it’s invading privacy — and appears to be preying on young people.

As Steve’s previous post asks — how long will business models based on personal data survive? With every bad press day it seems harder and harder to use personal data to personalize.

How well do people understand how you’re using their data? 

We also discuss the top trends people are talking about in 2019. After some keyword analysis and the input of sites like BiznologyCMO and more,  we can tell you all the most important digital marketing trends to watch. The biggest name will be no shock: Artificial Intelligence.

But do executives really know how to implement AI technology in a way that works, to create a seamless learning experience? The secret is starting small, with just what you know. That’s what we do at SoloSegment — check out our technology solutions if you’re interested in more.

0:00 Intro

2:05 Facebook’s in App Jail

14:45 What are Top Trends pages saying?

17:40 How can executives get started with machine learning?

24:15 Seamless customer experience

27:00 Outro

SearchChat is available on

Search Chat is SoloSegment’s podcast dedicated to all things search AI and content marketing related. Who is SoloSegment? We’re a technology company focused on site search analytics and AI driven content discovery to improve search results, increase customer satisfaction and unlock revenue for your company. If you think we might have the answer to your conversion problems, feel free to connect with us.

Originally published on Biznology


Tim Peter: Hi, I’m Tim Peter and welcome to Search Chat. SoloSegment’s Podcast dedicated to all things search, AI and content marketing related.

Tim Peter: Who is SoloSegment? We’ll we’re a technology company focused on site search analytics and AI driven content discovery to improve search results, increase customer satisfaction and unlock revenue for your company.

Tim Peter: SoloSegment. Make your search smarter.

Tim Peter: You can learn more at

Tim Peter: Today, SoloSegment’s CEO, Steve Zakur and I, talk about Facebook’s terrible week and the consequences of how they’re using data to track customers. We also discuss the top trends for 2019 and what they will mean for your business as you go forward throughout the course of the year. And of course, we talk about how you can tie it all together and make it work. So sit back, relax, and enjoy SearchChat, coming at you right now.

Tim Peter: Well hey Steve, how are you doing today?

Steve Zakur: I am doing really well today. Thanks Tim. How about yourself?

Tim Peter: I am spectacular, as always. Thanks for asking.

Steve Zakur: Man, we’re always so chipper, it’s awesome.

Tim Peter: We really are.

Steve Zakur: We’re happy people.

Tim Peter: We really are.

Tim Peter: I saw a thing today on Twitter that was really interesting where somebody talked about the three types … the three definitions of optimism. You can define optimism three ways. One. I try to perceive the world accurately and my honest assessment is that things are great. Two. I try to perceive the world positively, regardless of whether that’s accurate. Three. I am cheerful and like solving problems. I’d like to think we’re both number three’s.

Steve Zakur: Yeah, we definitely are.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: We’re charged up by that.

Tim Peter: Exactly right. That’s the way we roll. We like to be optimistic and we like to solve problems. Right?

Steve Zakur: We do. We do.

Tim Peter: Alright, so let’s talk about problems.

Steve Zakur: Oh boy.

Tim Peter: Facebook has some problems, don’t they?

Steve Zakur: Oh, they sure do. Man, I … you peel back this Facebook onion and I’m scared what we’re going to find in the middle.

Tim Peter: Yeah. Yeah. It’s this really interesting thing of, I can’t tell at this point if they’re stupid or evil. One of these has to be true, right?

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Peter: To quick recap the story for listeners who don’t know what the story is at the moment. Facebook, apparently, made available an app. And to be fair, it was something people had to opt into and Facebook paid the people to opt into it. But if you opted into this app, you got it through their developer portal, and it gave Facebook root level access to your device so that it could see all the traffic that was going from your device to any other app or website.

Steve Zakur: Wow.

Tim Peter: Which, I don’t know how much money they had to pay people. I think it was like 20 bucks a month or something.

Steve Zakur: I think it was 20 bucks a month.

Tim Peter: 20 bucks a month.

Steve Zakur: It was a gift code or something like that.

Tim Peter: Right, right, right. As a gift card. Right, right. A $20 Facebook gift card. No.

Steve Zakur: Facebook advertising gift card. Yeah.

Tim Peter: Call me crazy, but that’s creepy as hell. Since we were talking about can you do this without being creepy last week.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Yeah. And if that were the end of the story, right?

Tim Peter: Right. Right.

Steve Zakur: I would say, okay, A … and I don’t want to judge, but boy, these Facebook folks have this piling up set of indictments that … they’re beyond creepy, right?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: It does make me wonder about the evil thing. But the fact that … and oh, by the way, they’re targeting, again, everybody’s preferred demographic, young people.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: And by that I mean anybody younger than me. I guess … what is it? 13 to 35?

Tim Peter: Yeah, that’s right.

Steve Zakur: They’re preying on teenagers, right?

Tim Peter: Right. Millennials and Gen Z.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Who are happy to get … if I’m 13 years old and somebody is giving me a $20 gift card to go buy more of something.

Tim Peter: Oh yeah, yeah.

Steve Zakur: I’m happy for that. And of course, I’m sure there was some … you know, I’m putting the air quotes on for podcast land. There was some sort of “parental approval” that I’m sure any 13 year old could just click on.

Tim Peter: Of course.

Steve Zakur: Just that part of it is super creepy. But then when you say … you think about what they did in violating Apple’s terms as an app provider, right?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: Not only do have this really creepy feeling product that is intrusive, that I can’t believe if anybody really understood what they were giving up, would do it for 20 bucks. Right?

Tim Peter: Now that’s a great point. Right. Because, we’ve talked about this offline before and we probably we’ll talk about it on the show today, and as we go forward.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: Is this idea of, how well do people understand how you’re using their data?

Steve Zakur: Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Peter: How clear are you in letting people understand how data’s being used?

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. And by the way, now, if you … you and I love the asides, so another aside was the 10 year ago thing. You show a picture of yourself today.

Tim Peter: Oh yeah.

Steve Zakur: You show or picture yourself 10 years ago.

Tim Peter: Right. Right.

Steve Zakur: And or course, word on the street is, and it might even have been Facebook, but I don’t want to indict them unnecessarily, but the whole thing is, they’re training an algorithm to recognize people as the age.

Tim Peter: That’s right. It’s certainly the conspiracy theory de jure, which may well also be true. It’s exactly how you would do it-

Steve Zakur: Right. Absolutely.

Tim Peter: -if you want to train a machine learning algorithm, so it follows logically, yeah.

Steve Zakur: But, going back to this a Facebook research thing. Let’s set aside for a moment the fact that they were, and preying’s a strong word, but they were preying upon people who are young. Not legally able to enter into a contract. Not legally able to understand it. Set aside for the moment that they’re collecting data, like what you sent in an email and all that other stuff.

Tim Peter: Yeah.

Steve Zakur: And, by the way, if you really understood that, is 20 bucks really the trade for value that you’d make for that? I don’t think so.

Tim Peter: I don’t think so either.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. I really don’t. Let’s just set all that aside.

Steve Zakur: The the reason I think that Facebook knew this was wrong and that they are in fact dirty on this, and this is a pretty strong indictment of them, but I think they knew they were dirty on this, is because they did this, they basically launched this app and distributed this app through their developer interface on the Apple Store and not through the publicly facing one. Right?

Tim Peter: Right, right.

Steve Zakur: And I know it’s a little bit of a technical stuff to understand here, but basically, if you’re developing an app, and you want to test it and give internal folks access to it, it’s not publicly available, but it also allows you to do things. It gives you root access to the device. It allows you to do things to make sure your app is going to work well once it’s in the wild.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: But apps in the wild aren’t allowed to have that level of access. And so, they intentionally deployed it, violating Apple’s terms of service. But again, set that aside for a moment. They did it in a way that they knew they could continue to get this creepy data. They knew it.

Tim Peter: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Zakur: I would not believe anything, any statement by Facebook saying, oh, this was unknown to us. Oops, we did this by …. No. No, they did this intentionally.

Tim Peter: Oh, no, no, no. This was, regardless of what their motivation was from a, “Are they evil or are they dumb?” kind of thing, for a second. There was no way this was an accident.

Steve Zakur: Yes.

Tim Peter: Right?

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: They clearly did this, and the reason I think that’s important is, it goes back to what we were talking about last week, of this idea of big mother versus big brother.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: And, have some sort of devil’s advocate available whose incentives are aligned with doing the right thing.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: Because maybe they literally, all their incentives were set up to point them towards doing a thing that was not great, because what they wanted to get, what it appears they wanted to get, was all this data about how do you use your phone, how do you use other apps, etc, when you’re not on Facebook.

Steve Zakur: Right.

Tim Peter: And this was a way to do that. And, as a business who competes with the other stuff you might be doing on your phone, it’s understandable they would want that data.

Steve Zakur: Sure.

Tim Peter: It’s also completely understandable that if your incentives are aligned to go get that data, regardless of breaking anybody’s terms of service-

Steve Zakur: Cheat, cheat, cheat.

Tim Peter: -or being kind of creepy, that you might do that, and I’m going to say, unintentionally, in the sense of your-

Steve Zakur: Oh, you’re so kind.

Tim Peter: -incentives drove you to it.

Tim Peter: Oh, no, no, no. I still think it’s creepy as hell and they shouldn’t have done it.

Steve Zakur: I think they cheated, right?

Tim Peter: Well, yeah, yeah.

Steve Zakur: I think they knew they could cheat and they cheated.

Steve Zakur: This is, and I think we should move off of Facebook because you know, you can get me wound up and I can get going on this. But, they have made in a lot of, especially in the EU, and a lot of the kind of the antitrust things.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: They have made claims that they’re not a monopoly. Everybody has choice in the market.

Tim Peter: Yep.

Steve Zakur: Yada, yada, yada.

Tim Peter: Yep.

Steve Zakur: I think this will be an important data point for regulators to say, no, you are in fact a monopoly because you exercise monopoly power.

Tim Peter: Oh, sure, sure.

Steve Zakur: When you can do things like this that you know, if you get caught, you are dead meat, right?

Tim Peter: Right, right.

Steve Zakur: The press release on this would kill you, but you’re immune to the effects of this information coming out, and they are. Right?

Tim Peter: Oh yeah, yeah.

Steve Zakur: They’re a monopoly.

Tim Peter: Well and you know … first of all, I agree. Secondly, the Exponent Podcast, which sadly has gone on potentially permanent hiatus, had a great bit over a number of episodes where they talked about how Facebook’s acquisition of things like Instagram and WhatsApp probably should not have been allowed from an antitrust perspective in the sense of protecting consumers. And third, it’s undoubtedly the sort of thing that leads to GDPR and the California Consumer Privacy Act and the like-

Steve Zakur: Sure.

Tim Peter: -that’s bad for other companies who want to do this stuff because Facebook has the resources. Google has the resources to comply with those.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Absolutely.

Tim Peter: And also to shape the way those legislation exist.

Steve Zakur: Yep.

Tim Peter: Whereas, companies like ours, companies like our competitors, who are smaller, younger, et cetera, the big guys pull up the ladder behind them and that’s not a great place to be.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: Now, the interesting part about this is, Apple has smacked them down for this, and I’ll let you talk about that in just a second, because you have a really interesting perspective on this. But, the Apple thing is particularly interesting to me because it’s worth asking whether Apple is protecting their users, their data, their business, or some combination of all of those.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: Because obviously, this is, in theory, Apple’s data, as well as Google’s with Android, that Facebook is now glomming onto.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Well Apple’s always had this-

Tim Peter: So just your thoughts on what Apple’s going to do.

Steve Zakur: -white hat, black hat when they’ve talked about Facebook.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: You could hear a thousand Tim Cook clips talking about how, we respect privacy, is, of course, because their business model doesn’t require it.

Tim Peter: That’s right.

Steve Zakur: It’s easy for him to say. Their business model requires really good glass and fast processors.

Tim Peter: Right, right.

Steve Zakur: I do think Apple is able to take a high ground here because of their business model. Because, by the way, that monopoly word again, right?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: Because they do rule a decent chunk of the market. But, I do think that Apple has some credible white hat in the privacy realm. Especially if you rewind all the way to the fact that they said they wouldn’t unlock devices for the FBI. That’s an unpopular, in many circles, an unpopular place to take. So, I do think that Apple has a credible high ground here, has credible high ground with regards to privacy. They’re going to continue to be trusted in this space and hopefully it yields them more sales because they’re going to be self interested. They don’t have the moral high ground because they’re more moral people, they just know it can make business for them. But, at the same time, they’re more credible.

Tim Peter: And again, to your point, they sell a rectangles of glass and chips, so their incentives, again, are more aligned with doing the privacy stuff.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: I know you and I both like Apple products, and the like, but again, their business model does not depend as much, per se, on the data as does Facebook’s, as does Google’s, people like that.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: It’s definitely an interesting place for them to be.

Steve Zakur: Yeah, and I do dig the punishment that was meted out because they basically turned off all of Facebook’s internal apps, the apps that they use, not only to test new features, but also the apps that Facebook uses to run their business internally. I’ll be interested to see how long that lasts, how long this punishment lasts. And quite frankly, what the impact is on Facebook and the use of Facebook.

Tim Peter: Absolutely. Well it’s particularly interesting because at the time we’re recording this, this has already been going on for a couple of days and we haven’t heard any updates about what happens there.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: Facebook just had a record quarter, just had some amazing earnings come out and use of the product continues to be at a pretty good level. Growth has definitely slowed some, so it’s just going to be interesting to see how that changes over time.

Steve Zakur: Indeed.

Tim Peter: As we talk about over time, it’s probably a good time to talk about over time as we move into 2019.

Tim Peter: We’re at the end of January, early February, 2019. So we’re a month plus in, at this point. But, we’re seeing a lot of people still come up with top trends. There were bunch of articles I’m going to put in the show notes about five technologies that stole the show at CES. An article I wrote for our blog about why AI has come along way since HAL in 2001.

Steve Zakur: Sure.

Tim Peter: A post you wrote on the Biznology blog about 2019 themes in digital marketing and another Biznology post where they rounded up a variety of folks, including our Senior Strategist, Mike Moran, talking about predictions for 2019 and these hot topics in business and technology.

Tim Peter: We did a very, very quick, fairly meat headed, keyword frequency analysis on terms that came up again and again and again in these posts.

Steve Zakur: Yeah, the was very cool to see.

Tim Peter: Yeah, and what came up a lot were things like AI, and customer experience, and data, and displays, and content, and customer journey, and voice, conversational interfaces, and the like.

Tim Peter: I just think that’s interesting. Obviously, that’s a space we live in a lot. From your perspective, as the guy who’s leading this company and talking about where we’re going, I’d love to hear your thoughts about why these are so important for where we go forward in 2019, and in all likelihood, beyond.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting when you look at that word cloud. If you were to look at a word cloud at the same predictions for 2016/2017.

Tim Peter: Yeah, yup.

Steve Zakur: Those words might have appeared, and probably did. Digital experience, AI, data, those are all consistent themes over the past couple of years. What I do think is, and this is … I don’t think it’s trough of disillusionment time, but I do think there is a … there is … it is time for a lot of these technologies to put up or shut up. Right?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: We’ve been hearing about AI, and machine learning, and text analytics, and natural language processing, and digital this, customer journey that. So it’s like, well what does this all mean for us creating value in the enterprise? And, additionally, if I’m in the enterprise and I’m thinking about, alright, now it’s time for me to actually deliver some value, do I really have to go out and re platform, or do whatever, to make it work?

Steve Zakur: I had a really interesting conversation the other day with an unnamed executive, so I guess I can’t name him.

Tim Peter: Right, right.

Steve Zakur: But anyway, we were talking about this machine learning thing and his challenge was, how do you get started? How do I, as an executive-

Tim Peter: Right. Right.

Steve Zakur: -get going with machine learning?

Steve Zakur: They had a couple of false starts over the past year or two, where vendors came to them with new whiz bang technology that could transform some magic thing in their lives.

Tim Peter: The AI pixie dust, right?

Steve Zakur: Absolutely. Sprinkle it liberally, magic happens.

Steve Zakur: And he said, you know what they came to? They really came down to, one, start with processes and data you understand. It was basically a start small. Right?

Tim Peter: Right. Right. Right.

Steve Zakur: But it was really get into familiar territory with something you know, and great, if there’s a vendor out there who can do that for you. For example, we use a technology for some of our email marketing that’s got some pixie dust behind it. It’s got … helps you with progression and with sequencing and whatnot as you do sales prospecting. And, by the way, this is something that sales people know well, it’s a process sales people really understand well. And so, when Frank came to me and said, “Hey, I want to use this thing, it’s got some pixie dust in it, but it’s got real practical pixie dust.” It was like, oh yeah, yeah, let’s go try that because it’s a process we understand. If it gets better, we know that it’s better than the old way because we saw it get better, and we almost don’t care that the pixie dust is in there because it’s a process we understand. It gets better. It’s measurable results. That’s a way for us, as a business, to use machine learning to improve our processes.

Steve Zakur: And that was his advice was, don’t succumb to the big sales pitches that come from whoever shows up to transform your business. Really look at the process level, start where you understand the value and then, therefore, where you can measure the difference in value that’s created if you do adopt some of these technologies. And, of course, start small, go fast, but don’t bet the ranch on anything because I think that’s where-

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: -you get disappointed.

Steve Zakur: We were in the car yesterday driving back from an appointment, you and I, and we were talking about how long does it take to do a CRM project, right?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: And the answer is three CIOs.

Tim Peter: Three CIO’s. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Steve Zakur: But it’s like, when will the magic machine learning project be done? Well, when are you running out of money? Right?

Tim Peter: Right. Right.

Steve Zakur: Because if you try to do big transformation, that’s often the case. You’ll be disappointed. You’ll sink a ton of money into it, and you won’t understand the value that you either did or did not get.

Steve Zakur: Anyway, long way of saying, I think that you look at any of these buzz words and the goal in 29 is to get tactical, focus on familiar territory, work with processes, data, and value that you understand, and go for it in that way.

Tim Peter: Yeah, I think that’s exactly … Steve, I couldn’t agree more. You and I have had this conversation before. In fact, I think I’ve talked about this on the show before. But, one of my favorite things to talk about in that regard, you know that I majored in music in college.

Steve Zakur: Yes.

Tim Peter: And what my professor who taught my instrument, I was a voice major, and what he always taught was, practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. By which he meant, and what I mean when I say it these days is, not that you get it right every time, it’s that your process for doing it doesn’t change.

Steve Zakur: Sure.

Tim Peter: And what part of the process is, take it in bite sized pieces. Do it the best you can possibly do it. Learn from the bits that you did not do well, and then apply those learnings to doing it the next time. It’s that whole … it’s one of the reasons why agile works.

Steve Zakur: Right.

Tim Peter: It’s one of the reasons lean methodologies work. Because it’s really about following a process for how to learn and then building on that to get better ever single time.

Steve Zakur: That’s a really important point in that process for learning.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: And, by the way, I can’t remember who wrote the book about learning organizations, but, that really is, at the end of the day, when you look at companies that struggle, it really is because they forgot how to learn. It’s a big point.

Tim Peter: Yeah. That’s so spot on. And it’s funny because that’s what we’re trying to teach machines how to do.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Indeed, indeed.

Tim Peter: It kind of works the same way, give them a problem that’s easy, not easy to understand, but give them a problem that’s easy to get your arms around, to understand what kind of outcomes you’re looking for and understand what kind of results you’re looking for, and that tends to work.

Tim Peter: One of our first products, which we decided not to commercialize for a bunch of reasons.

Steve Zakur: It does make for a good story though, by the way.

Tim Peter: And internally we call it the Magic Bounce Machine.

Steve Zakur: Yeah, that’s right, it’s got a cool …

Tim Peter: We are able to feed content into this thing and it’s very good at predicting whether or not the bounce rate will be high, medium or low. And, actually, with very good accuracy in terms of the actual value. It’s a little hard to commercialize because it’s a little hard to operate in terms of the reasons why bounce is high. You might need to understand something about the content, so it’s tough to scale as a software product.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Peter: But again, that’s exactly right. We started with this idea of something that’s well understood. We know that bounce rate on webpages is bad. We know that bounce rate on people’s experience is bad. So, let’s find something that can tell you why it’s bad and point you in the right direction for how to fix it. And it’s exactly that, so I think we … if I can blow a little smoke for us. I think that was a great learning for-

Steve Zakur: Oh sure.

Tim Peter: -us because we took a problem that was certainly solvable. We learned from it. We certainly found out quickly enough that, you know what, this isn’t probably the best thing to actually make as a commercial product, but, we got a ton of learning and now we can use that same technology to apply on this.

Steve Zakur: Yeah, and I think that really is at the heart of all discovery right, is … I know there have been several inventors who have quoted this, but it’s, I didn’t succeed so much as I failed 500 times and then got it right.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: And that is really at the heart of it because it did teach us a tremendous amount about, basically, ML Platform builds and how to do that.

Tim Peter: Yeah. And, it’s funny, before the episode, you and I were talking about what we wanted to talk about today, and all. One of the things that you brought up that was just really spot on to me, as we talk about what ties all these themes together. In terms of what Facebook was trying to do with collecting this data. What Apple tries to do in terms of preventing people from doing creepy stuff. In terms of the trends that we’re seeing, is how companies who are doing this well and the people who are focused on this well are really trying to tie this all together by just making it work.

Steve Zakur: Right.

Tim Peter: Make it seamless for customers. Make it something that works the way it’s supposed to.

Steve Zakur: Yeah.

Tim Peter: I’d love for you to expand on that a little bit, because I thought it was such a great point.

Steve Zakur: Yeah. In order to really understand the genesis of that brilliant thought, you really need to go check out a … oh, I’ve got to get the product name right here. You got to go checkout the Bloom Parasol, because the Bloom Parasol is a voice activated umbrella. And let me tell you, most needed products on the planet because I struggle to open my umbrella all the time.

Tim Peter: Right. Right. Exactly.

Steve Zakur: As silly as that product is, and I really am … I thought it was an Onion article when I first saw it. As silly as that product is, it does, it strives to be that. That all of … you know, first do no evil with the technology.

Steve Zakur: So Facebook, if you’re listening right now, do no evil.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: But, the second is, make it easy. Make my life easy.

Tim Peter: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Zakur: And by the way, we struggled with this when we first started out. You rewind back two and a half, three years, where we were really focused on analytics and we thought, and I thought, boy, one of my first criticisms of the product was, can’t we make this analytics dashboard look better?

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: And Frank was like, you bet, we could make it as pretty as you want, but people didn’t want an analytics dashboard. Right.

Tim Peter: Right.

Steve Zakur: They didn’t want us to point out the flaws in their search capabilities. What they wanted was the thing to be made better. Right?

Tim Peter: That’s right.

Steve Zakur: And so, can you take the data and deploy it in a way, whether you’re using pixie dust or just traditional technology, can you deploy the data in a way you can automatically improve the customer experience, improve the visitor journey, improve the business outcomes. That really is the goal.

Tim Peter: Yeah.

Steve Zakur: And yeah, if you really just distill it down to its most basic elements, it really is, make it work. Just make it work. And if you can, make it work better. That really is what everybody needs to do with regards to the pixie dust technologies and all the buzz word bingo is, at the end of the day, we want it to work, and I almost don’t care how it works, just make it work.

Tim Peter: Wow, Steve, that’s a great way to put a button on it. I think that’s exactly the right place to stop for this week. As ever, good talking with you and we will catch you next time on SearchChat.

Tim Peter: Take care now.

Steve Zakur: Take care.

Tim Peter: Search Chat is brought to you by SoloSegment.

Tim Peter: SoloSegment is a technology company focused on site search analytics and AI driven content discovery, to improve search results, increase customer satisfaction, and unlock revenue for your company.

Tim Peter: SoloSegment. Make your search smarter, and learn more at

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Tim Peter: For SearchChat, I’m Tim Peter. I hope you have a great rest of the week. Thanks so much for joining us and we’ll look forward to chatting with you next time here on SearchChat. Until then, take care everybody.

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